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sean  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 7, 2011 8:48:04 AM(UTC)
sean

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 A very quick one today about dealing with clubs where one member has somehow managed to get more than a 50% ownership.

I've only run into this once, but on the chance that anyone else gets into this situation, it turns out to be reasonably easy to handle:

When running the ICLUBcentral Tax Printer, the club needs to click the check box (desktop accounting), or select 'Yes' (Online Accounting) to the question of whether any individual or estate owned, directly or indirectly an interest of 50% or more in the profit, loss or capital of the partnership

 

Making this selection will have the tax printer produce Schedule B-1, which is an extra page for the form 1065. This form needs to be filled out manually, and sent in along with the regular 1065 forms generated by the tax printer.

 

As well, if you've read the most recent StockCentral Gazette, you may have noticed I'm going to be part of a community workshop starting on the 17th. While I've tried not to be too specific with the Support Ticket postings, the community workshop will be a chance to answer specific questions. If you're interested, email amy@iclub.com if there are specific questions or areas You'd like to know more about.

 

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sean  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 7, 2011 9:12:37 AM(UTC)
sean

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 I'm actually posting this by proxy, based on an email I just got from Ira Smilovitz. He let me know:

Under the constructive ownership rules, greater than 50% ownership isn't that uncommon in family investment clubs, particularly where grandparents have started a club for their children and grandchildren.

jimthomas@yahoo.com  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:49:28 AM(UTC)
jimthomas@yahoo.com

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In fact, in a family investment club, it could be the case that *every* individual member has constructive ownership of 100% of the club.
sean  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 10, 2011 4:45:18 AM(UTC)
sean

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 Hi Jim,

Just to make sure, you're talking about a situation where there might be one adult, or one person in charge of multiple trusts, right?

If not, then my understanding of constructive ownership (one person being legally responsible for someone else's shares) may be over-simplified.

jimthomas@yahoo.com  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 10, 2011 11:44:50 AM(UTC)
jimthomas@yahoo.com

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 105

> ... you're talking about a situation where there might be one adult, or one person in charge of multiple trusts, right?
No. For example, consider an investment club (partnership) consisting of a husband, his four children, his parents, his brother, and his two sisters. As I understand it, each of those ten people holds 100% constructive ownership of the partnership (regardless of what percentage of the club each individual owns directly). Form 1065, Schedule B, Question 3b would be answered "Yes" and all ten people would be listed on Form 1065 Schedule B-1, Part II.

See the instructions for Form 1065, Schedule B, Questions 3 and 4, "Constructive ownership of the partnership" http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1065/ch02.html#d0e3485

"Also, under section 267(c), an individual is considered to own an interest owned directly or indirectly by or for his or her family. The family of an individual includes only that individual's spouse, brothers, sisters, ancestors, and lineal descendants. ..."

See also http://www.irs.gov/businesses/partnerships/article/0,,id=186863,00.html and scroll down to "Q2."

-Jim Thomas

jimthomas@yahoo.com  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 11, 2011 9:57:21 AM(UTC)
jimthomas@yahoo.com

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 105

> For example, consider an investment club (partnership) consisting of a husband, his four children, his parents, his brother, and his two sisters.

As I think further about this example, it's clear to me that the husband and his parents each hold 100% constructive ownership of the club.  And, it's clear to me that everyone else holds more constructive ownership than just their direct percentage ownership.

However, it's not clear to me, for example, if the husband's four children have constructive ownership of what's directly owned by their father's brother and sisters.

-Jim Thomas

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