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albany37  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:45:08 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

For those of you interested in educational opportunities on options, please note that CNBC will now be showing a weekly Friday evening half-hour show on this topic.  The first show of this options series was shown last night. While i think they need more emphasis on basic and intermediate option education, that should hopefully come over time.  The announcement can be found at Options Show if you'd like to see the details.  The only drawback so far is that the show airs from 11:30 to Midnight (perhaps they didn't know about NAIC's public television series), but that's what VCRs and DVRs are for.

And, for those of you attending InvestEd in 2009, Mary Ann Davis will be reprising her terrific options classes for your education and enjoyment.

Enjoy both.

Saul Seinberg

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albany37  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:10:24 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Well, I saw a repeat of the Friday evening CNBC Options show early this morning while trying to set my DVR for something else.  It's fast paced and fairly well done, but the show is definitely better suited to option buyers and sellers of intermediate to advanced level option experience than to beginners. 

I still think the show needs a 5 or 10 minute segment each broadcast for novices  and beginners who would like to learn about options via TV.  Until that happens, assuming the show finds traction, I'd be happy to answer questions on options as best I can. 

I also think they need to get Jon Najaarian, aka Dr. J., a dynamic guru options trader and ex-NFL Bears linebacker, on the show.  This is unlikely since Jon makes appearances and offers market commentary on national radio, along with CNN, CNBC, CBS Marketwatch, CNNfn, Fox TV, WCIU, Bloomberg and Dow Jones News Services.Business News, as well as run his own trading business.  He's definitely worth listening to at every opportunity.

In a month or two, I'd like to do an options workshop here at StockCentral, assuming I get permission, on the use of covered calls and puts and how they make sense for a growth oriented investors like us.  This will basically be similar to the version I did at last August's InvestEd 2008.  Hopefully, assuming enough interest, this workshop will get a green light.  Please let me know what you think.

Saul...

 

wyomingkid100  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:44:52 AM(UTC)
wyomingkid100

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 29

Hello Saul,

I saw the Options show on Friday evening and agree with your comments.  It was far more advanced than I needed.   (and a little to risque for even 11:30 at night - - - naked puts after all?   ). 

I think an options session here at Stock Central led by you would be terrific!  I hope others agree and we'll see it here soon.  The topic is timely as noted in the Lawrence McMillan piece in Barron's on Dec. 29th and a Steven Sears piece on December 8th..  Also, a  three-page article in this month's TDAmeritrade newsletter (quoting Najarian) discussing covered call writing as a defensive play in today's market. 

Options do have a gentle side that can be used to generate income and reduce risk.  Particularly, covered call writing can be used in today's environment to preserve capital. 

Thanks for offering this class Saul.

Karen

 

Karen OBoyle
krgallivan  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:12:29 PM(UTC)
krgallivan

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 20

In a month or two, I'd like to do an options workshop here at StockCentral, assuming I get permission, on the use of covered calls and puts and how they make sense for a growth oriented investors like us.  This will basically be similar to the version I did at last August's InvestEd 2008.  Hopefully, assuming enough interest, this workshop will get a green light.  Please let me know what you think.



Saul,

I had to miss EnvestEd 2008, much to my disappointment as I was looking forward to your options and technical analysis classes.  I would very much like to see you lead an options workshop here, especially if you begin at the very beginning.

I notice you mentions Mary Ann Davis' options class scheduled for InvestEd 2009 (and I do hope to be there).  Will you not be there as well?  I was hoping to catch up on topics I missed last year.

Kathleen
albany37  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 1:31:49 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Hi Kathleen,

Sorry you had to miss InvestEd 2008, but I'm pretty confident that InvestEd 2009 will be even better for you and all the other attendees. Actually, I will be at InvestEd 2009 only I'll be presenting on topics other than options. I'm pleased you'll be there and I'm looking forward to greeting you in person. In the interim, should you have any questions about my presentations at InvestEd 2008, I'd be happy to answer them here.

I plan to start the options workshop right here in this Forum on Monday, February 16th.  The workshop will cover option basics and the use of options by growth investors, the type who hang out here .  This will include explanations of options vocabulary and ticker symbols, the mechanics of placing option trades, calls, covered calls, puts, married puts and naked puts (cover your eyes Karen O'Boyle) to name most of the topics I will discuss.  I'll even spend a little time on option brokers and who I think rank highest for mdest to low volume option traders. Prior to the start of the workshop, I'll also post a list of options books I've found helpful for those interested in such references.

I hope this is what you're looking for.

And if you decide you'd like to hear more about options after I finish this workshop, I suggest you plan to take Mary Ann Davis' options class at InvestEd 2009.  I've done so myself and I can tell you from personal experience that it will be informative and entertaining.  

Saul...

mstigall  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 7:38:38 AM(UTC)
mstigall

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 32

Saul - what a great idea!

I'll add my name to the list of those who'd like to see you teach the class.  And you plan to cover a resource (selling covered calls) which can even be executed within a 401K or IRA plan.

Thanks!

Michael Stigall
skimmerscott  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 10:33:42 AM(UTC)
skimmerscott

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 25

Add my name to the list for the Options class as well.  I know my father-in-law used them for years, and was able to use them to preserve capital amongst other things.  I never took the time to learn from him, and now it's too late, so yes, on the options class and covered calls and puts and whatever else! 

Laura

albany37  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:07:28 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Michael,

Thanks for your note. Options, especially covered calls, can be very rewarding even for a conservative investor. In fact, that's my main option mantra. 

Options have several uses that can be of value to a growth investor. Unfortunately, too many investors avoid options, for whatever reasons, and they are missing out on an investment tool that could otherwise be advantageously employed. This subject will be covered in the upcoming workshop in addition to a bunch of other option related topics, from option nuts and bolts to basic option strategies.

You are correct, of course, in noting that covered calls can be utilized within 401K and IRA accounts. The real issue is whether or not the custodian/broker of your 401K or IRA plan will permit you to use covered calls. I have found that many custodians of formal corporate 401K plans and some brokerage firms are very resistant to the use of covered calls.

As with stocks, not all brokers do a good job in providing option servcies and resources. So, the upcoming workshop will cover brokers who specialize in options or those who do a fairly good job, in my opinion and experience, in just providing an acceptible level of option services for their stock trading customers since that's where most option activity will take place for readers in this Community.

Get your option questions ready and I'll answer those as best I can without disrupting the workshop's flow.  In other words, I may be able to respond right away to some questions or choose to delay an answer to others untill any required background material can be explained.

Here's some options history and an options question to keep you all involved until the workshop gets started.  Formal trading on an options only exchange began in April 1968.  There were 911 option contracts traded that day on the new Chicago Board of Options Exchange or CBOE. 

Just a few years later, in the mid-70's, trading soared to more than 200,000 options contacts per day.  The number of option contracts traded today on the CBOE and other exchanges is many, many times that of themid-70's level.  Clearly, options trading has arrived and then some.  The growing liquidity of the options market attracted speculators, hedgers and even conservative investors.  We'll mainly be addressing how a conservative investor should use options, but speculators and hedgers are also invited to participate.

And here's our options question of the week:  How were stock options traded before the CBOE opened for business back in April 1968? Google based cheating/research allowed 3 days after this note is posted.

Saul...

 

 


albany37  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:48:06 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Hi Laura,

Welcome!

We've got a little over two weeks until the options class will start.  In the meantime, I suspect a few of you are anxious to get your hands on a list of decent or better books and web sites that explain options and perhaps a list of option centric brokers of the discount persuasion.

Let me start with a list of option books I own or have read.  I strongly suggest that you peruse your local book store, a large store like Barnes & Noble works best for this, and scan the various option books on their shelves.  A precious few libraries have strong financial sections, but I've found they mostly have older editions.  If an options book makes your eyes cross, put it back on the shelf, even if it's on my list or anyone else's list.  Start where you feel comfortable and don't assume that you need to get down and dirty with a 1500 page options encyclopedia right away.

My list of option books is attached.  It is definitely not exhaustive and tends to run to basic explanations and conservative use of options.  I have tried to indicate what level of options advice I believe a book offers, but don't let my opinion be your only guide.  Try the scan test mentioned above or look at reviews on Amazon or a similar web site, if a book is listed there, to see what other readers think.

Enjoy.  More to come.

Saul...

 

mstigall  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 30, 2009 9:48:10 AM(UTC)
mstigall

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 32

Saul - thank you for the reply.

I've traded naked put/calls for over 20 years, using technical analysis and artificial intelligence... and I'm still learning . If you're curious, there is an interview over at http://www.neuroshell.com/traders.asp?task=interviews&id=1 about the process.

I have not explored writing options; either naked or covered. I'll be very interested in the class!

Michael Stigall
albany37  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:59:31 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Michael,

Thanks for your response. 

I read the article referenced by the link in your note and found it very interesting.  The use of artificial intelligence is facinating and I appreciate your posting that information.  I hope we can swap some additional information along the way on your methods before the Options Workshop is completed.

I tried MESA software (relies on entropy) years ago and found it to be a little too over the top for me.  Like you, I am also an engineer (EE), so the MESA approach by another well credentialed engineer seemed promising.  Alas, 'twas not to be, but you might find John Ehlers background and software interesting if you visit his web sit. 

It's interesting to note how many investors with engineering backgrounds gravitate to technical analysis.  Perhaps it's their comfort level with numbers, software and higher order equations .  On the other hand, many engineers prefer fundamental analysis (for example, I think Ralph Seeger has an engineering degree) while the remainder opt for a hypbrid analysis approach or stick to some varient of an asset allocation strategy.

While my overall option method is more of a blend of fundamental and technical analysis than yours seems to be, I too use a combination of Bollinger Bands and RSI at times and find that to be helpful for my purposes  I will spend a little time in the workshop discussing this duo in operation.  I also use point and figure charts for analysis purposes, but these charts are not a key or required ingredient for selling or buying options in my view and other forms of charting will work if an investor chooses to use charts.  We don't have a session at InvestEd on PnF charting, but I'd be happy to answer questions on this form of charting when the big tent is quiet.  The Cyber Cafe, each evening, is an excellent opportunity designed for such exchanges.  Hint: it's amazing how a glass of good Merlot makes me want to talk about PnF .

Saul...

 

mstigall  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 4:47:26 PM(UTC)
mstigall

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 32

Saul,

I taught a course for an NAIC club in 2007, and we covered the material at a rapid pace. Since we finished early, I asked them what they'd like to cover for the last class. Some of them had an interest in technical analysis and my options trading system, so the last class tried to provide a brief overview of both ... Technical analysis and the artificial intelligence application towards investing.

 

Shoot me an email address, and I'll send you the Powerpoint file as a ZIP.  The artificial intelligence section begins at slide 22, but you might find the overview of technical analysis interesting too.

Michael Stigall
albany37  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 11:56:24 PM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Hi Michael,

My e-mail address is saul.seinberg@gmail.com.  I'm looking forward to reading your presentation.

Thanks.

Saul...

 

mstigall  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:29:08 AM(UTC)
mstigall

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 32

Saul -

I have the date of your options course online - Feb. 16th (Monday).  Do you have the time and the webinar location? The event does not show up on the StockCentral Events calendar, and I haven't seen any formal notice on the course yet.

Michael Stigall
albany37  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:46:54 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Mike,

Sorry for not making the workshop logistics clear in my earlier messages.

I will start posting messages in this thread next Monday, February 16th.  Questions can then be posted as replies to my messages or as new messages.  I will try to post at least 3 messages a day depending on the number of questions I get.  I don't want to go too fast and leave anyone behind.  Unfortunately, I'll have to slow down during the week, especially on the nights I teach.  The workshop will continue until all my material is presented and all questions are answered.

There is no webinar per se.  This workshop is actually an approved, informal presentation of my own.  In this respect, the workshop will follow the process used in the Investing For Growth Forum.  I expect there will be some e-mail announcements circulated in a day or two with some additional information.

"Talk" to you next Monday.

Saul...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM, classroom@stockcentral.com> wrote:
From the The Classroom forum at StockCentral.com, Michael Stigall writes:

Saul -

I have the date of your options course online - Feb. 16th (Monday).  Do you have the time and the webinar location? The event does not show up on the StockCentral Events calendar, and I haven't seen any formal notice on the course yet.







Posted by: Michael Stigall


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TamiDeAngelis  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:31:16 AM(UTC)
TamiDeAngelis

Rank: Member

Posts: 19

Saul,
I have attended all the classes and still have placed a single order! Any thing you recommend that I might do to prepare myself to place an order after the refresher of the workshop? I guess I need a hand to hold.
Tami
albany37  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:33:54 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Hi Tami from Tulsa,

Good to see you here.

I would suggest you wait for the workshop to begin and not buy any options book yet.  I will cover the nuts and bolts of placing option orders, including covered calls, in the workshop so that shoudn't be a concern at this time.  Besides, once the workshop finishes, you may have outgrown any beginner's book you'd buy now so you can proudly order an intermediate level reference instead in a few weeks. Yes, initiating an option trade can be a little stressful, but all that anxiety will hopefully fade once we work our way through the material.

Also, this weekend, with respect to books about options, I'll be updating the list I posted a few days ago with a revised version.  In other words, there may be a better selection for you in the updated list rather than the current version.

I'm looking forward to your questions.  I will make hand holding an option (pun intended) for friends and hard working students.

Saul...

 

albany37  
#18 Posted : Friday, February 13, 2009 1:37:55 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

 

Attached is the updated list of options books. 

Saul...

 

albany37  
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:44:49 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Hi all,

Happy Valentine's Day!

In addition to the updated book list I posted yesterday, I recommend the following options related web sites.  There is one free online site and some free local seminars concerning options listed at these sites along with some moderately priced higher level web sites and courses. I think it's wise to confine yourself to the appropriate options level you're at so you can properly and more readily absorb the material being presented.

I like the Options Industry Council web site the best.  It does an excellent job for beginners. It is free and can be found at www.888options.com.  Here's an example of the type of (free) seminar they put on; see http://www.optionseducation.org/temp/ied_email_2009/email.html?ecampaign=ied_02_11_09.  Unfortunately, for many of you, this course is in southern California, but there will likely be others in your area over time so check the web site and sign up to receive notices for their courses.  This particular course is an all day seminar, so be prepared to absorb a lot.  This workshop should prepare you for a lot of the OIC's content.  Their handout materials are usually very good so plan to attend this one if the location is convenient for you.

The Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) web site can be found at www.cboe.com.  This is mainly a pay site if you want to get most of their goodies.  I'd take a look, but wouldn't buy yet if I were a beginner to an intermediate option investor.

You can also get options (and futures) information and educational material from the CME Group's site (fornerly the Chicago Board of Trade) at www.cmegroup.com which has free trials.  It does not include as many tutorials as the old CBoT web site, some of which may still be available at www.cbot.com.

All of these sites lack something that you can find elsewhere, for example, in the books on my list.  One topic that isn't treated as well or in as much depth as it should be is that of risk.  While that should be expected from what are industry run web sites primed to get you involved in options, it's good to know this from the start so you can supplement what these sites offer as appropriate.  I will cover option risk to some extent or point you to references where you can get additional enlightenment.

Two days to go until the workshop gets underway.

Saul...

 

albany37  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 16, 2009 5:08:47 AM(UTC)
albany37

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 70

Good morning and happy Presidents' Day.  Here's the first installment of the options workshop.








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Introduction (1)

 

Welcome to this options workshop.  I would like to thank StockCentral for offering us all this pleasant and helpful venue.

 

I expect the workshop to run for several weeks.  I will be posting the options materials on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.  I will be responding to questions as soon as possible, as permitted by my schedule and work obligations so please be patient with respect to my feedback. 

 

Your questions are welcome and can be posted at any time.  Please direct your questions to this workshop and not to me privately.  It’s time consuming and sometimes duplicative to respond to both public and private questions.  Besides, you can count on the fact that there will be others who have the same question as you and a private answer from me will deprive them of a response to their question.   So don’t worry about your lack of option knowledge and please err on the side of sharing your question right here with your fellow attendees.

 

I’ll also reserve the right to answer some questions at a subsequent point in the workshop, rather then when they are initially posted.  I’m referring to questions on subject matter that is scheduled to be addressed at a later point in the workshop.  Answering such questions sooner would likely distract from discussion of our current topic, hence my desire to delay this specific type of question.  Otherwise, I’ll post answers to all other questions as soon as I reasonably can.

 

Further, this workshop will be limited to basic explanations of and discussions about vanilla options and strategies.  I will not cover any exotic option combinations, such as straddles, strangles or spreads, although our dialog could briefly drift into these areas.  I will touch on one kind of spread, the credit spread, later in the workshop. 

 

For starters, you should know that there are only two types of options available to us as investors; namely, calls and puts.  However, there are many ways in which to combine and trade these options.  As noted above, I’ll concentrate on basic option strategies and leave the exotically named butterflies and condors for another day.

 

This workshop is not about incentive options, the kind that are granted to executives, directors and employees of a company to boost performance and compensation.  These are a different kind of option than those traded on public exchanges although conventional options can be used to protect the value of incentive based options where permitted.  Unfortunately, it’s not unusual for companies to bar trading in publicly traded options for the company as a hedge against incentive options held by the grantee of company incentive options.

 

Since the nature of an underlying stock or ETF is critical to consideration of any option bought or sold on the underlying asset, it will be necessary to form an opinion on the quality of the underlying.  That means we won’t be leaving our stock studies far behind.  Please note that I will also be mixing in a modest amount of technical analysis that will be used to compliment or supplement our fundamental analysis for purposes of implementing certain option strategies.

 

Next, more introduction to options.

 

Saul...

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