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jncraig  
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:18:49 AM(UTC)
jncraig

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 561

"Why do some investors produce disappointing investment returns?  It is probably because they pursue a strategy that can best be described as a loser’s game.  They take chances that are beyond their skill level.  They ignore tried and proven NAIC methods that over the years have proven to be successful for the patient investor who is willing to learn and apply NAIC basic sound fundamentals as improved over the years by numerous volunteers."

Download the attached PDF file for then entire document.

Joe

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DannyM  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:47:12 PM(UTC)
DannyM

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 262

Thanks for the article Ralph. On page three you mention that americans savings rate has gone from 10% to zero. I read somewhere that those gathering the figures do not take 401's into account when calculating the pct's. Have you ever found this to be true? Are they only looking at certain types of savings vehicles?

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:27:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

sc_host  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2007 2:55:39 PM(UTC)
sc_host

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 71

Danny,

The figure was correct at the time I wrote the Word document. I do not know if deferred saving plans for retirement are included or not. I recently had the services of a Physical Therapist. She is from India. She and her husband save 30% of their salaries. Americans do not come close to that.

Ralph

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:28:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

robert.bethea@ttu.edu  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2007 11:49:46 AM(UTC)
robert.bethea@ttu.edu

Rank: Newbie

Posts: 2

Ralph:

A very good article with lots of good advice to follow. However, I'm not sure that I fully understand two of your reasons for selling. They are:

"To improve quality of stock grossly overvalued" and

"As an acquirer-price declines"

Would you please explain them, perhaps with some examples?

Thank you.

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:33:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

jncraig  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:12:11 AM(UTC)
jncraig

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 561

Nancy,

Here is Ralph Seger's reply:

"To improve quality of a stock grossly over valued"
 
Please keep in mind that the price of a stock tends to be moved by two primary things.  These are a P/E ratio change and a change in E/S.  For an up side potential these are a P/E ratio expansion and E/S growth.  Of these two factors, P/E expansion is the most powerful.
 
The SSG uses a multiple of the average high P/E ratio and expected EPS five years in the future to estimate potential high price in five years.  Let's assume we adjust future P/E ratios using our judgment to the following:
High 34
Low  16
Average 25
We value stocks on the basis of investor's expectations of future EPS.  I use analyst's expectations of EPS about 12 months in the future.  If you look at "analyst's estimates" for a stock where you are asking for the current price on Yahoo Finance you will find the estimate for this year and next year.  "This year" means the current fiscal year.  "Next year"  means the following fiscal year.  Not all companies have a fiscal year which corresponds to a calendar year.  Therefore you must make an adjustment between estimates for "this year" and "next year" by using the fraction of a year for "this year" plus the fraction remaining for "next year".
Let's us look at an example.  Supposing we are valuing a stock in August and the fiscal year ends in February. This means there are six months from August to the end of the fiscal year in February. Therefore we should multiply the estimate for "this year" by 6/12 and add to it the estimate for 6/12 of "next years" estimate.  The result will be analysts estimate of EPS 12 months from August of this year to August of next year. (I realize this is some what complicated, but achieving good results in the stock market takes some work.  As Milton Friedman said "There is no such thing as a free lunch).
 
Let's assume the current price of your stock is 64 and the estimate of future EPS, as described above, is $1.60.  Then at a price of 64 the P/E ratio is 64/1.60 = 40.  Since we have estimated, using our judgment. that a reasonable value for a future P/E ratio is a high of 34 our stock has already built into its price a P/E ratio that discounts future P/E ratio expansion.  We should not expect any rational investor to raise the price much beyond the current price of 64.  We conclude the probability of a P/E expansion is quite low.  Therefore, it is rational to sell the stock and look for a good quality growth stock selling at a P/E ratio which provides room for a P/E ratio expansion. This would be a stock whose forward P/E ratio is not much more than 25 if is the same as our example. Of course, you should figure out what is a reasonable value for a P/E ratio for any stock being considered.  My concept of "relative value" is to calculate the current P/E ratio based on analyst's estimated EPS 12 months in  the future and then compare that P/E ratio to what is a reasonable expectation for a future average P/E ratio.  In estimating what is a reasonable value for a future average P/E ratio I use the concept of PEG.  That is the P/E ratio as a percentage of a reasonable estimate of the future growth rate of EPS.
 
I realize that a small question was asked and I gave an answer that is like turning a fire hose on one who asks for  drink of water.  Please note in the above I have frequently used the terms "estimate" and "judgment". As I said in my article " The Theory of the SSG".,successful investing and the use of the SSG is all about judgment.  There are no automatic SSGs where you feed in the numbers and out pops the answer. 
Joe
jncraig  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:54:46 AM(UTC)
jncraig

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 561

Ralph adds:

In my write-up of "Winning the Losers Game" I stated under Reasons for Selling "As an acquirer - price declines." That was a master piece of an incomplete statement!

What I should have said was "If you own a stock that is acquiring another company and the price of your company declines it means investors are selling because they think the acquisition will not add much for the shareholder,therefore, you should sell."

In retrospect I should add "This is probably one of the weakest reasons for selling".

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:33:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Joe
robert.bethea@ttu.edu  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:58:53 PM(UTC)
robert.bethea@ttu.edu

Rank: Newbie

Posts: 2

Ralph,

Thank you for the added explanations. I don't mind the "fire hose" approach - it really makes it easier to understand.

Nancy

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:32:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

bobadams  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:58:14 PM(UTC)
bobadams

Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 16

Ralph...

If my memory serves me, at some point in the past you said you look at company news daily for each company you own.If my memory is correct, what source do you use and what do you look for and what gets your attention.

If my memory is bad, then my question becomes what value do you place on company news--that provided by the company and/or by investment reporters?

Bob

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:30:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ralphs  
#9 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:13:20 AM(UTC)
Ralphs

Rank: Member

Posts: 26

Bob,

I read The Wall Street Journal and if a company is mentioned I look at Yahoo Finance for reports of earnings or other subjects. I get quarterly earning in detail from Business Wire and one other source in Yahoo Finance.

Is there anything else I can help with?

Ralph

Edited by moderator Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:30:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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